Over on the casino side there is mention of a Starluck/Planetluck connection. I think those are both IGM sites which is the same as Empire. I know I opened casino accounts at both of those in the last two weeks. I have no idea if there is any connection but there has to be more than just playing poker for bonuses.

Hmm - a casino connection sounds very plausible, to me. Closing accounts on "unwanted customers" is a very casinoish thing to do - and since the same network is running both those casinos you mentioned as well as the Party poker network...

If more of the unlucky shutouts could confirm that they too have some casino history with iGM, it does sound reasonable.

Nope , never whored a casino in my life !

I have accounts on all of the party networks sites and I have talked to party on the phone before and they know I have accounts at all of their sites and they even verified all of my accounts for me. I just had a thought though. I was thinking that Empire may be closing accounts that they suspect of having more than one account at their site but is actually the same person. I think this may be an attempt to shut down all the suspected gnomes. I'm not saying that anyone who had an account shut down is doing anything wrong or unfair. It is not my place to make any assumptions about anyone. It seems to me though that empire may just be going after people who they think are whoring them out unfairly. So I think it may be possible that Empire is not closing down people who whore them out regularly, but only those who they feel are taking advantage of one bonus multiple times. Please don't get upset, because I don't think there is anything wrong with gnoming. I just wanted to bring this possibility up as I had not seen it mentioned before. I certainly don't expect anyone who is in this situation to come forward and say that they were gnoming and that is why. I just wanted to bring this possibility to light and see what everyone thinks. I think they may be targeting users who login from the same IP Adress with multiple accts. Now all this is just speculation on my part. Also, you can login with the same IP adress to multiple accts legitimately. If you have several family members/roomates playing poker from the same Web connection, it might look like fraud, but, of course is not. Like a cable modem or DSL on a wireless network and such. If you are logging in to the same site from the same network with multiple accounts I reccomend you use a proxy server. They cost money, so it will eat into your profits, but it is a great way to make it look like everyone acct is from an idividual user/computer. Well, that is all. Hopefully I've got some thoughts going.

If Empire just get rid of those accounts that produce negative income after bonuses are considered they will be substantially better off. One of the first steps to making a business more profitable is to see which customers are costing you money and stop supplying them - bottom line instantly improved.

Im in agreement with yakface, this is not casino related in that you must whore both casino and poker sites to qualify.

This is the poker side taking the same approach to whores that casinos do.

I'm interested how you would decide who is more profitable. Just because someone plays a bonus doesn't mean they are any less profitable to the site than anyone else who plays a bonus. If bonuses were bad for the site than there wouln't be any. Since they advertise their bonuses you have to assume that most people take advantage of them. Whether you are a better player or not has no bearing on the site. They just want action. The more players the better. Now if you assume that they are losing money on bonuses by not collecting enough rake to cover them then you might have a point. In that case they just stop offering bonuses or only make them account specific.

Of course the other side of the argument is that the bonus is intended to get you on the site and then you continue to play there. Since I have not played at Empire except for bonuses they don't get any other income from me. From that standpoint I can see them closing my account and I have no real problem with that. I would just like to know what their criteria was.

No multiple Empire accounts for me so that isn't the reason for being closed. As for the IP address most people have Dynamic addresses so there is no real way for the site to use that either.

The only real sad thing is that I only got to collect on one Empire500 bonus.

Yes, a lot of people do have dynamic adresses. Something to be concerned about even if you have a dynamic (changing) IP adress is that it may be the same while you login to several different accts. Then when you turn your computer off and on again the IP number is different. If you login to all of your accts before it changes again though, you can see how they could easily catch on. Assuming that they have software monitoring this. I believe they do as I have had accts put on hold before after having friends play from my computer while I was teaching them. Then I logged into my acct immediately after and then all three were closed and required verification. I don't think multiple connections from just the same domain would matter though, especially if everyone is living in the same area, the domain could be the same for all of them. Of course, I'm sure you are aware of how Dynamic IP adresses work. I just wanted to explain that for any who don't. You could also release the IP adress and then renew it and if its dynamic it should change. This is all going beyond the scope of poker though and I have a tendency to ramble on... and on.

Some whores are playing 8 tables at once, clearing 2 diferent bonus, using the same IP, asking for trouble ...

How about checking the MGR. Takes 5 seconds to find out how profitable a customer is. Most of those who whore Empire for bonuses have a big negative MGR. Not all that hard to identify those customers that are unprofitable.

For the record, my account is still open and active as of today.

I have accounts at all the Party skins, plus Starluck/Planetluck, and I have subjected each of them to maximum whorage. Not a single bonus (other than the 10x ones) has gone unwhored in almost two years. No gnomes at any of the sites though.

I could count the number of non-bonus hands played at every skin combined on the fingers of one hand, and I lost seven of my fingers in a tragic accident.

Not fixing the broken toilet ballcock, I hope

10 - 7 = 3 (OMG we are going to have to call you "3 fingers TOPHER")

What the hell is a MGR?

Your (monthly) generated rake, with bonuses subtracted out. I.e. how much they actually made off of your play.

This makes sense but I still go back to the same question. If they calculate their hands played correctly to clear the bonus, ie. 7x or 10x then shouldn't the bonus vs rake be exactly zero for every player. I thought they set up the bonus to always be even or very close to that. And if that is the case there should be no reason to ever ban a player since they might play more in the future.

I guess that Empire would have a harder time making up the bonus since they don't get a full share of the rake like Party does so that may play into their numbers.

It's not contributed raked hands at Empire.. You can fold every hand at a loose table and contribute a few cents per orbit to the rake (via the blinds); while making $1/orbit in bonuses.

That's not something to joke about! I'm very offended! OK, not really, but it does suck to not be able to go guy a pair of gloves that fits. Seems that every pair I try on has too many fingers on it. What gives? Mittens rule

Joking aside, are there any specialty companies that make gloves with fewer than 5 fingers each? There are a lot of times when I need gloves, but extra fingers flopping around really get in the way. Just curious...

well, im locked up.

I did not get an e-mail, just a message to call them. I'd be much more comfortable with e-mail correspondance.

No gnomes here, and I think I was an Empire VIP..

Hell, I went to their banquet in Atlantic City..

2/4 - 5/10 or 50/100 nl/pl.

You would think I'd have a positive MGR.

You WOULD think wouldnt ya? I only play 2/4
This is making less and less sense as time goes by.

I almost feel left out, I havent received any emails or popups at Empire to call.

I certainly will not be playing there until this is resolved

For the record, and for purposes of comparison, my wife and I each have an Empire account. They are played only during bonus offers, and have been that way for over a year now. Until recently, we played 1/2, but now play $50 NL. We clear the bonuses and immediately cash out.

Neither of us are shut down... leading me to believe that the accounts being closed are being closed for more than simply whoring bonuses.

Unless they just haven't gotten to us yet.

They sure gave you the royal "flush" treatment , nice way of treating their VIP customers....

Welcome to the rebel alliance

There are several posts regarding this empire thing, so I wanted to give my response. Here is the same response I posted in another thread:

Here is my take. I have never played a single hand without clearing a bonus. The thing that bothers me about the closing of accounts without recourse is, if they were losing money on the accounts only taking advantage of bonuses, then raise the hand playing requirements. If they close a certain number of accounts, then keep the 5 and 7x bonuses coming, a new wave of whores will come in over time, as well as existing players wising up to the advantages of bonus whoring and they will still have the issues of the rake not balancing off the bonus. If ALL of their bonus requirements went to 10x or higher, they wouldn't have to close ANY accounts.

I am not saying I want them to raise clearing req., I just think this method of closing accounts and confiscating funds of people who are simply following the T&C and maximizing their return is unprofessional. I am a manager and I have to review budgets and expenditures all of the time. Of course you look at where you are losing money and make changes to correct it. If customers cost you money, but they are loyal customers, you don't get rid of them, you raise prices or change terms of the contract to generate profit. If that drives them away, oh well. If they stay, you keep customers and make money, bottom line.

My extremely long 2 cents for what it's worth.

JP

Like danyulc, my latest theory was also that accounts from the same household was a common denominator. Think about it, if you have multiple people in the same household who are all bonus whores of some description...

I'm just curious... has any such household had all of their accounts shut down? So far, I have heard things like 1 for 2 or 1 for 3, but not all?

Anyway, this theory is most likely rubbish, given how draconian and seemingly random their lockout process is. Take pilgrim's case... I mean, wtf? I'm stunned he's been locked out with that sort of playing history.

Overall, I'm just very surprised that Empire, of all places, would be the first to crack. If anything, I expected a few more Cryptos to worsen their bonuses first, and maybe places like Multi/PN to vanish off the map... but Empire? Damn!