BetOnBet - be careful

All Apologies · **Joined:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:05 pm **Posts:** 302

What a joke of a network;

http://www.4flush.com/online-poker-news ... ewed/3322/

4flush wrote:

Microgaming spokespersons have advised online casino players, online poker players, and sports betters and all others contractually owed monies by the above companies (such as poker and casino affiliates) to submit inquiries to the liquidator once those details become available,

As of now however, there’s no liquidation representative details available, players with balances of thousands of dollars are forced to simply sit and wait without any idea of when the wait will be over.

Although Microgaming has asked players to contact the liquidator directly, online poker news website PND has provided their contact telephone number for players looking for updates and further information. Microgaming, located in the Isle of Man can be reached at +44 (0)1624 647777.

Some high stakes poker players have reported possible losses in excess of $250,000.00 each.

Sorry BW but if you continue to promote MG in any way I won't do busy here anymore, this is twice now that they'd f-ed over players, everyones here to make money but this is taking greed to a whole new level imo.

jack.duck · **Posted:** Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:08 pm

AA, i kinda agree with you, microgaming is not to be trusted. this isnt the first time i have had crap like this happen. i got fucked by a future bet skin a few years back. but that being said, we play at these small networks that have good promotional deals and more fish instead of tilt or stars, but this is the cost. we wanted more return, we accepted more risk. i do think this would be a good time for affiliates to look at the current landscape, and take a fresh look at sites they service.

daraider · **Joined:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:10 pm **Posts:** 2069

the biggest issue I see now is that even if a skin is run well it could easily be put under by another skin not settling debts because is insolvent.

I guess by the looks of it they had a lot of high stakes winning players so when the skins settled money was paid to eurolinx, not vice versa.

I 100% believe ladbrokes would come to the rescue with issues with their skin, but every other one has to have massive question marks over their head.

I guess unibet might not, but i don't know enougth about them.

All Apologies · **Joined:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:05 pm **Posts:** 302

LOL its keeps getting funier;

twoplustwo post wrote:

It appears that Eurolinx has mislead the players regarding their licensing.

BetonBet was licensed by their former owners in Malta.

A current search of the the LGA yields no licensing for Eurolinx or BetonBet current, suspended or cancelled.

In addition the Curacao licensing authority http://www.curacao-egaming.com/index-4.html have posted the following on their website.

"Please note: We do not license http://www.eurolinx.com or http://www.betonbet.com"

deezamn · **Posted:** Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:15 pm

It's been more than 48 hours. BW reps have nothing to fucking say about this? This was mortgage payment money I was waiting on for 2 months. Not to mention another $3.5K+ sitting in an account, as well as like $2.2K+ worth of linxpoints I was going to use for a new TV and monitor. This is fucking brutal.

I mean people HAD to know something was going on. Were affiliate payments on time? Do we even know if Eurolinx just chose to close up shop and go into liquidation? Or did Microgaming pull the plug on them, basically forcing them into liquidation?

All Apologies · **Joined:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:05 pm **Posts:** 302

Sigh.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/cas ... ion-3.html

All Apologies · **Joined:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:05 pm **Posts:** 302

BonB guys, check this out, at least you have somewhere to complain to, looks like EL wasn't licenced anywhere.

http://www.lga.org.mt/lga/content.aspx?id=157049

All Apologies · **Joined:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:05 pm **Posts:** 302

So pretty much Eurolinx didn't have a licence and Microgaming couldn't find this out and let Jo Remme defraud players out of lots of money BUT normal people all over the net are discovering this!!!!

Some famous players such as WiltOnTilt ($200k), Durrrr($195k), CottonSeed ($250k) plus countless others with huges figures and many with smaller figures.

BW do you have a response to any of this?

daraider · **Joined:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:10 pm **Posts:** 2069

It seems pretty shocking Eurolinx was lieing about it's licence and that MG would allow eurolinx to operate without one.

Maybe that is why they aquired betonbet for the licence.

Gonzo787 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:27 pm

Hey guys,

These are obviously very unfortunate developments with Eurolinx and BetonBet and we sympathize with those affected. Please also know that we have taken note of the passionate comments in this thread.

At this time, there are ongoing discussions about the best way to proceed regarding the valid concerns about Microgaming as a network and other skins on this network. We want to act quickly and deliberately, but not impulsively. We owe this to our players and we owe this to our Microgaming partners who have acted accordingly and continue to be solid poker rooms.

While these discussions take place, we will be contacting Microgaming and the Microgaming sites who are listed on BW in an attempt to gather information/comments so we can take the appropriate action.

We are taking the situation seriously and will not accept "looking into the matter" type of responses or non responses. We ask for your patience at this time while we take these steps and we will report our finding to you all.

All Apologies · **Joined:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:05 pm **Posts:** 302

This is all well and good Gonzo and I honestly do appreciate your response (this isn't directed at you, as you just work for BW and do a great job here), but the fact of the matter is I emailed MG numerous times with not even an acknowledgment well before EL went under, I also emailed that Curaco Licencing authority well before EL went under and again no response. Which believes me they knew this was coming and didn't want to bother to respond and let numerous shady developments to happen.

Still MG has decided not to respond to the players requests for them to do so and just said its up to US (seriously, we as the players shouldn't have to take this burden on) to go ahead and do the work to get our money back while they allowed Jo Remme to defraud players, lie about having a gaming licence and run the site into the ground - even sending out Reload emails DAYS before they closed.

deezamn · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:39 am

I mean, is there any truth to Eurolinx not even being licensed? I mean, there are a lot of fingers to point if that's the case.

All Apologies · **Joined:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:05 pm **Posts:** 302

deezamn wrote:

I mean, is there any truth to Eurolinx not even being licensed? I mean, there are a lot of fingers to point if that's the case.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/cas ... ion-4.html

Casinomeister wrote:

I also scoured the LGA and was unable to find Betonbet's or Eurolinx cancelled or suspended license. They do not appear to be currently licensed. I know when all of the mess that got Eurolinx decertified here Jo Remme offered for any mod at 2+2 to visit Malta to tour the facilities on them. It would seem impossible that they would openly operate in Malta without a license wouldn't it? Maybe I just can't find it.

Casinomeister wrote:

Whoa! More shocking revelations regarding the operations of this outfit and its management.

If it is true that Jo Remme and his colleagues were operating without a licence whilst telling players that they were licensed, it would probably amount to criminal fraud and be actionable against the individuals concerned.

Casinomeister wrote:

I'm told that Remme has claimed his licensing is (was) as follows:

Eurolinx poker licensed in Curacao

Betonbet licensed in Malta

Linx Casino licensed in KGC.

If this is true, the only charitable explanation for the lack of information reported by PA and Wang I can think of is that the registrations may have been done under the name of another group company.

It has to be either that, or blatant and fraudulent falsehoods?

Casinomeister wrote:

Given what is being uncovered, how did they manage to fool Microgaming into granting them the software operating license. If forum members can find all this out, why were a PROFESSIONAL outfit such as MGS unable to find all of this out, and start asking the relevant questions, and requiring substantive answers, before either granting, or renewing, software operating licenses.

This case should also expose once and for all this seeming myth about the MGS "trust fund" that promises a "last resort" return of player CASINO funds if all else fails.

It used to be thought this "trust fund" covered the MGS POKER platform too, but then TUSK came along................

If MGS have allowed players to believe in a "trust fund" that has never existed, they have surely committed a deception by omission, since they must have been aware that a key bond of trust between players and MGS casinos was based on the believed existence of this "trust fund", even though it was never called upon in earnest till the TUSK poker collapse. I believe the few other MGS casino operator failures were dealt with by selling the assets cheaply to another operator, who agreed to underwrite the liabilities (balances owed to players) in exchange for the player base and skins for a "knock down" price. This happened when Integrity casinos failed (Captain Cooks etc), and recently for the 6 TUSK casinos, both lots were picked up by Casino Rewards (one reason why they have SO MANY casino skins).

Casinomeister wrote:

Just to add,

Having looked into the class 4 licence a little more, it appear that this may not allow the holder to operate a poker network where they take a portion of the rake. If MGS are not running their poker network under a Maltese licence, where exactly are they licenced?

All Apologies · **Joined:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:05 pm **Posts:** 302

An EL employee began posting at the bottom of the page in this thread;

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/in ... dex82.html

daraider · **Joined:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:10 pm **Posts:** 2069

Those posts from CM are really looking bad for MG. This is starting to look like total mismangement on every level possible. Thanks for putting those quotes together.

I think you should temp. remove all MG sites until you finish you investigation. You don't want to send any more poor suckers that way.

Gonzo787 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:29 pm

daraider wrote:

I think you should temp. remove all MG sites until you finish you investigation. You don't want to send any more poor suckers that way.

Thanks for your comments, daraider but BW's previous statement stands.

For the record, the quotes in AA's post don't appear to be from CasinoMeister as a site, but from users of Casinomeister. Maybe that was obvious, but I personally didn't realize it until I clicked the link AA provided.

daraider · **Joined:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:10 pm **Posts:** 2069

Thanks for point that out. I assumed too that they were from CM.

Still it is worrying how easily players are finding out this info. WTF was microgaming doing?

jack.duck · **Posted:** Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:38 am

bw needs to say something soon imo

i know you wont give us anything, but at least pretend like u care about anything more than affiliate payments

i am a US player so bonus chasing doesnt mean much to me anymore, but integrity does

this is the second time i have been burned with you as my affiliate

All Apologies · **Joined:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:05 pm **Posts:** 302

One of EL's sponsored players Marc "Myst" Karam repsonds here;

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/in ... ry-571067/

He was aked;

Myst, many thanks for posting.

Do you know why Jo Remme said that "Microgaming was a terrible network" and what were the real reasons to try to move to Cake ?

Response;

He said that they were catering to Ladbrokes/Unibet and that they didn't listen to any of the other skins anymore. One of the reasons was that they didn't merge any of the Ladbrokes/Unibet tables $2/$4 and under, they stayed on a separate network.

There was some other stuff I can't completely recall. I just wanted my site up and running.

And jokotokolino, I remember you well. Very sorry you lost that much. Jo was one of the nicest people I had ever dealt with, and it was too good to be true.

Gonzo787 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:56 pm

BW has teamed up with PokerNewsDaily on part of our investigation. There are a couple things that have come out of that we would like to share, some of which may be in that 2+2 thread already. Our investigation is continuing.

Microgaming has told us that "have a copy of a valid Gaming licence issued by C.I.L CURACAO INTERACTIVE LICENSING N.V to Eurolinx International N.V. and has confirmed that this licence had not been revoked as at Friday 21 August." BW and PND are trying to verify this with the C.I.L.

Several MG sites we have spoken to have said the following about their relationship with Microgaming:

Microgaming’s activities are limited to providing software and poker network services. In keeping with the practices of other service providers, whether software or otherwise, Microgaming does not manage the business activities of its operators. Microgaming does not have any right to see the financial records or accounts of its operators.

daraider · **Joined:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:10 pm **Posts:** 2069

Gonzo787 wrote:

BW has teamed up with PokerNewsDaily on part of our investigation. There are a couple things that have come out of that we would like to share, some of which may be in that 2+2 thread already. Our investigation is continuing.

Microgaming has told us that "have a copy of a valid Gaming licence issued by C.I.L CURACAO INTERACTIVE LICENSING N.V to Eurolinx International N.V. and has confirmed that this licence had not been revoked as at Friday 21 August." BW and PND are trying to verify this with the C.I.L.

Several MG sites we have spoken to have said the following about their relationship with Microgaming:

Microgaming’s activities are limited to providing software and poker network services. In keeping with the practices of other service providers, whether software or otherwise, Microgaming does not manage the business activities of its operators. Microgaming does not have any right to see the financial records or accounts of its operators.

The part about microgaming not having any right to see the financial records is a total blatent lie. In both Tusk and Eurolinx the end came when MG auditors kicked them off. If they have no right why does MG have auditors?

This network sounds like a total mess. How on earth is your money safe even at a good skin if a bad skin can go broke. Ie players from good good skin win 500K from bad skin. Bad skin goes broke and good skin is out of pocket of 500K. This is a total joke if it is honestly how they operate.

The eurolinx licence you mention has been mentioned but it all seems very underhanded if it even actually really exsits. In the 2+2 thread nobody has actually been able to confirm a vaild licence (although betonbet has one) It might just be eurolinx forged the licence and MG didn't even bother checking it up. I am suprised it is possible for a network to run this poorly.

What you need to be asking skins is what is there to assure players their money is safe?

ruestm · **Joined:** Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:03 pm **Posts:** 1089

Quote:

What you need to be asking skins is what is there to assure players their money is safe?

I go out on a limb and say dont put any more money in...... only then u are assured.

jack.duck · **Posted:** Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:21 pm

jack.duck wrote:

bw needs to say something soon imo

i know you wont give us anything, but at least pretend like u care about anything more than affiliate payments

i am a US player so bonus chasing doesnt mean much to me anymore, but integrity does

this is the second time i have been burned with you as my affiliate

i was drunk when i wrote that, i got a little rude, i apologize.

deezamn · **Posted:** Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:29 am

Gonzo787 wrote:

Several MG sites we have spoken to have said the following about their relationship with Microgaming:

Microgaming’s activities are limited to providing software and poker network services. In keeping with the practices of other service providers, whether software or otherwise, Microgaming does not manage the business activities of its operators. Microgaming does not have any right to see the financial records or accounts of its operators.

This is absolute bullshit.

Jo Remme ran a "pyramid scheme" with La Isla Bonita casino, and MG gave him a fucking license to run a poker room? I'm sorry, but that's completely ridiculous.

You're basically putting your potential customers in the hands of a criminal with a background in this industry. It's completely unethical to provide them with software or run their poker network services. It's bullshit that a site like Eurolinx, run by a criminal, was promoted across the internet by popular, trustworthy forums, websites, training sites, affiliates, etc.

daraider · **Joined:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:10 pm **Posts:** 2069

That is the thing. At ipoker they won't let small skins hold the money. Only large ones they put down significant investment to secure funds are allowed to have their own banking services. As a result the ipoker network has a good rep.

The simple fact is MG is a broken network now. All trust has been shattered. I don't understand how BW as an affilate is still openly supporting MG. I know your investigating but I don't belive you will do anything since you didn't temp. delist when it is obvious there are massive problems with the way the network is being run. That is totally beyond me from an ethicial point of view. I am guessing it all comes down to the almight dollar. I for one will not be considering any MG site (despite the fact I think a couple are safe) because their network policy puts you money at risk if you win money from bad skins.

MG must just be thanking god that Eurolinx and Tusk had more winning players than losing so they didn't end up oweing other skins a ton when they went and so just the players are screwed (since MG doesn't give a shit about the players just the skins which pay them).

PS. This isn't me being bitter. I didn't lose money because I was already steering clear of the network cause of Tusk (which I would of been caught in if i wasnt banned for being aussie lol)

BetOnBet - be careful

Who is online